Curse

The Meth · Nov 08, 2007, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qdq Swi

Said some good stuff and some things I disagree with

You may look at recuperation and laugh "LoL its an just an uber mending" but it is a seriously useful. Unless you are doing one of those stupid cookie cutter builds where absolutely every enemy is on a tank and x number of eles nuke them, it really shines in picking up the little damage that piles up over a battle.

Consider that Light of Deliverance (which atm is THE healing monk elite of choice, with its incredible efficiency) will heal about 11 health per second at a cost of about .83 energy per second. Recuperation will heal 6 health per second at a cost of .55 per second. Recuperation turns out to be 10.9 health per energy per affected character while LoD will give 13.25 health per energy per affected chatace. It will also work on >80% health, which means it will be able to affect more people at the same time. It will work on npcs and allies where LoD doesn't. It only requires 1 cast every 45 seconds, instead of 1 cast every 6 seconds, meaning you won't have to stop kiting or interrupt your damage-dealing spell casts to supply this healing. And it's not elite. You can instantly use Offering of Spirit to get half the energy back. It's only real downside is that it can be killed, which will very rarely happen with good spirit placement.It's funny that you mention recuperation will die in 3 seconds, then later say good spirit placement makes em live just fine

Generally you are already having problems if your battles aren't basically over by 45 seconds, but in that case a good caster should have energy management skills (by that I mean the player skill to save energy for another cast of the spirit)

At least you agree with me on vengeful... rits who spam that and weapon of remedy really need to learn to do something more productive.

silentman · Nov 08, 2007, 09:27 PM // 21:27

i have Ssyn's Staff and while i'm holding the ashes, i don't have +10 eneryg, no +60 health and no max dmg! sheesh, that's really bothering me and i just noticed that >_<
if i suppose to deal 80 dmg for example, i deal only 20 while i'm holding ashes.

so what so good in holding item, ashes, if i play like i have no staff?

Qdq Swi · Nov 08, 2007, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by thor thunder

well rits are OK at dmg but your better off healing/buffing rits are very good at it.
Bloodsong is the best healing summoned spirit availble due to quick cast low energy cost and long duration, not to mention its vamp!

use a healing build example

Restoration 12+1+3
Channeling 12+3
Spawning *what ever is left* +3

Vengeful Weapon
Splinter weapon
Weilders Boon
Mend Body and Soul
Spirit Light
Bloodsong
Ancestors' Rage
Death Pact Signet

((Change Vengeful Weapon for Spirit Light Weapon (E) if you are 20 and have acces to elite skills if not Vengeful Weapon is fine.))
((Change Ancestors' Rage for Energetic Was Lee Sa for energy manigment.))

You dont have to run +3 mods if you have low health or are below 20, but you will be most effective that way.
When useing this build try to keep the spirit near the group so it can attack enemys but keep it between you and the group/enemy so you dont agro (aka monk position) as a rit you are very weak so MOVE ALOT but dont agro try to avoide combat and lose agro if you get some mobs. Bring multiple weapons for energy manigment or attacking.

somthing like that is amazing in groups you do decent dmg with Ancestors' Rage, you give great party support with a good res and splinter weapon, But you also do some awsome heals there not huge but they are quick and low cost great for spamming with some practice youll be mvp of every group/PUG.
GL

Vengful Weapon is a good skill.. proting is for monks.. Vengful Weapon is great beacuse it heals/deals dmg/ and prots (in a way) and at 5 energy its EASLY spammed with weilders.
Vengful Weapon isnt ment to be a healing spell its kinda alittle bit of both throw it on a warrior to help him take out a mob faster and wile hes doing so with his spiffy weapon throw in a good timed weilders for some fun heals. this skill dosnt stink, it may not be the best in HM but it cant be stripped it heals for ~60 and does ~60 dmg in my book thats way better then spaming a bunch of healing spell wile waiting for your blind tank to kill the stupid mob with 30hp left..

that last bit is just dumb.. im sorry... but Vengful does 60dmg... ok... not bad.. but ur forgetin.. weapon spells DONT stack... a war could do much more damage with splinter than vengful any day.

The Meth · Nov 09, 2007, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by thor thunder

well rits are OK at dmg but your better off healing/buffing rits are very good at it.
Bloodsong is the best healing summoned spirit availble due to quick cast low energy cost and long duration, not to mention its vamp!

use a healing build example

Restoration 12+1+3
Channeling 12+3
Spawning *what ever is left* +3

Vengeful Weapon
Splinter weapon
Weilders Boon
Mend Body and Soul
Spirit Light
Bloodsong
Ancestors' Rage
Death Pact Signet

((Change Vengeful Weapon for Spirit Light Weapon (E) if you are 20 and have acces to elite skills if not Vengeful Weapon is fine.))
((Change Ancestors' Rage for Energetic Was Lee Sa for energy manigment.))

You dont have to run +3 mods if you have low health or are below 20, but you will be most effective that way.
When useing this build try to keep the spirit near the group so it can attack enemys but keep it between you and the group/enemy so you dont agro (aka monk position) as a rit you are very weak so MOVE ALOT but dont agro try to avoide combat and lose agro if you get some mobs. Bring multiple weapons for energy manigment or attacking.

somthing like that is amazing in groups you do decent dmg with Ancestors' Rage, you give great party support with a good res and splinter weapon, But you also do some awsome heals there not huge but they are quick and low cost great for spamming with some practice youll be mvp of every group/PUG.
GL

Vengful Weapon is a good skill.. proting is for monks.. Vengful Weapon is great beacuse it heals/deals dmg/ and prots (in a way) and at 5 energy its EASLY spammed with weilders.
Vengful Weapon isnt ment to be a healing spell its kinda alittle bit of both throw it on a warrior to help him take out a mob faster and wile hes doing so with his spiffy weapon throw in a good timed weilders for some fun heals. this skill dosnt stink, it may not be the best in HM but it cant be stripped it heals for ~60 and does ~60 dmg in my book thats way better then spaming a bunch of healing spell wile waiting for your blind tank to kill the stupid mob with 30hp left..

The first bit is even worse, little tip in the future: If you use more then 1 sup (and many will argue any sups) in PvE your word is worth slightly less then a mending wammo. Also how the heck is Wielder's Boon used? As soon as you use vengeful it goes away instantly. Splinter is used up by attackers too fast, and if you cast splinter on a caster just to heal with wielder's boon you invalidate your reason for bringing vengeful in the first place.

Why spam small heals like vengeful when you could be spamming spirit light for 3x as much healing?

Draginvry · Nov 09, 2007, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

If you use more then 1 sup (and many will argue any sups) in PvE your word is worth slightly less then a mending wammo.

You mean there are non-necros who use multipe sups?

No wonder that assassin died so fast.

horseradish · Nov 09, 2007, 04:44 AM // 04:44

Vengeful Weapon is the Rit's Reversal of Fortune.

It's not meant to "do only 60 damage" or "heal only 60 damage". It heals back the damage and has the potential to heal even more WHILE damaging the enemy. It will soften the blow at the least. I use it in the same manner of Reversal of Fortune when i resto rit. It's a buffer against the damage in case one of my quick recharge healing spells was used, or to buy time to think of a better spell. Hell, the only differences are the 1 second longer recharge and that it also does damage to an enemy. You'd need 2 spells of at least 5e to do damage and heal. It also opens up an elite slot, if you need OoS instead of WoR.

True, using Wielder's Boon with Vengeful weapon = fail. no dur. it's like using RoF with Dwayna's Kiss, but many rits bring around 3 weapon spells, to which there are plenty of other choices. Splinter weapon on a caster isn't much of a sacrifice because of the low energy cost and recharge. The new balance of this skill makes it less masochistic anyways.

Recuperation IS a good spirit, damnit! I use it all the time to relieve pressure off the monks. Seriously, they get no love. Defensive Spirits have a long range of effect for a REASON! Place this spirit in the back of a battle. If this spirit is killed, your entire group would either be retreating or waiting to be rezzed anyways. Claustrophobic spaces are a problem, 25 energy should be nothing if you use a variety of energy management options like weapon swapping, e-management skills etc. etc...The long recharge hinders the effectiveness and mobility of this spirit. There's no denying that. I just think the pros outweigh the cons on this skill.

Item Spells are strategic. Although they take away the benefits of a weapon and the minimal help from wanding, it's like a 5th weapon slot. Long duration Item Spells like Generous was Tsungrai or (my favorite) Protective was Kaolai, spells that have an effect when you drop them, can give back weapon benefits when you need them the most. Herald's Insignias help absorb some damage if you want to use them.

Silentman: hope this helps ur Rit playing. great profession. have fun.

silentman · Nov 09, 2007, 06:28 AM // 06:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by silentman

i have Ssyn's Staff and while i'm holding the ashes, i don't have +10 eneryg, no +60 health and no max dmg! sheesh, that's really bothering me and i just noticed that >_<
if i suppose to deal 80 dmg for example, i deal only 20 while i'm holding ashes.

so what so good in holding item, ashes, if i play like i have no staff?

excuse me, someone can answer it please?

Qdq Swi · Nov 09, 2007, 11:04 AM // 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

You may look at recuperation and laugh "LoL its an just an uber mending" but it is a seriously useful. Unless you are doing one of those stupid cookie cutter builds where absolutely every enemy is on a tank and x number of eles nuke them, it really shines in picking up the little damage that piles up over a battle.

Consider that Light of Deliverance (which atm is THE healing monk elite of choice, with its incredible efficiency) will heal about 11 health per second at a cost of about .83 energy per second. Recuperation will heal 6 health per second at a cost of .55 per second. Recuperation turns out to be 10.9 health per energy per affected character while LoD will give 13.25 health per energy per affected chatace. It will also work on >80% health, which means it will be able to affect more people at the same time. It will work on npcs and allies where LoD doesn't. It only requires 1 cast every 45 seconds, instead of 1 cast every 6 seconds, meaning you won't have to stop kiting or interrupt your damage-dealing spell casts to supply this healing. And it's not elite. You can instantly use Offering of Spirit to get half the energy back. It's only real downside is that it can be killed, which will very rarely happen with good spirit placement.It's funny that you mention recuperation will die in 3 seconds, then later say good spirit placement makes em live just fine

Generally you are already having problems if your battles aren't basically over by 45 seconds, but in that case a good caster should have energy management skills (by that I mean the player skill to save energy for another cast of the spirit)

At least you agree with me on vengeful... rits who spam that and weapon of remedy really need to learn to do something more productive.

Yeah I tend to condradict myself alot... I've never looked at Recup that way... I guess in the long run it could be pretty usefull :P but then it wouldnt work so well with offering of spirit, spirit transfer or any other sacrifical spirit skills... atleast bloodsong gains hp on the way to pwndom.

Quote:

Originally Posted by silentman

excuse me, someone can answer it please?

Lets put our brains to good use... staff is 2 handed right? KAY. Urns are 2 handed right? YARP they are... So do you think... *proposterous I know* that MAYBE... Just Maybe... an urn actually replaces your weapon for a short period of time? take this from me... IT DOES. that is tah durrrrest question asked this week.

Pick Me · Nov 09, 2007, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by silentman

excuse me, someone can answer it please?

Depending on the ashes you carry there is a good reason to hold on to it.

[skill]generous was tsungrai[/skill] - heals you (your staff won't)
[skill]channeled strike[/skill] - energy gain when holding ashes
[skill]anguished was lingwah[/skill] - pre cast, then drop the ashes where you want for instant spirit summon
[skill]mighty was vorizun[/skill] - increased defense and more energy than your staff
[skill]protective was kaolai[/skill] - party heal
[skill]resilient was xiko[/skill] - condition removal
[skill]tranquil was tanasen[/skill] - casting while not being interupted
[skill]vengeful was khanhei[/skill] - lifesteal when you are attacked
[skill]attuned was songkai[/skill] - energy cost reduction when casting

There are others too, so depending on what you plan to do and what you face, sometimes holding ashes is better than a staff.

silentman · Nov 09, 2007, 04:36 PM // 16:36

i'm using Generous was Tsungrai, that means i'm holding it like allways.

i asked if there's something that i don't know about it, or there's something to do with it. i wanted to know what is better generally, item or staff. you should stop to be so arrogant, Qdq Swi.

The Meth · Nov 09, 2007, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qdq Swi

Yeah I tend to condradict myself alot... I've never looked at Recup that way... I guess in the long run it could be pretty usefull :P but then it wouldnt work so well with offering of spirit, spirit transfer or any other sacrifical spirit skills... atleast bloodsong gains hp on the way to pwndom.

Offering doesn't cause the spirit to lose health at all, spirits just prevent your own sacrifice. As far as spirit transfer goes yeah it won't work as well, though since spirit transfer is 'target nearest spirit' you can determine which spirit takes health loss by being near it. Another good spirit to use Spirit Transfer on is Life, since it dies in 20 seconds you can spam spirit transfer as much as you like and it won't die quick enough.

Really I don't care that much for spirit transfer, Spirit light heals for not too much less and costs half as much energy. And it still works (though with a downside) in case your spirit dies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qdq Swi

Lets put our brains to good use... staff is 2 handed right? KAY. Urns are 2 handed right? YARP they are... So do you think... *proposterous I know* that MAYBE... Just Maybe... an urn actually replaces your weapon for a short period of time? take this from me... IT DOES. that is tah durrrrest question asked this week.

You could use a little more tact when insulting people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by silentman

i'm using Generous was Tsungrai, that means i'm holding it like allways.

i asked if there's something that i don't know about it, or there's something to do with it. i wanted to know what is better generally, item or staff. you should stop to be so arrogant, Qdq Swi.

You have to look at which each skill can give you, for instance here is what Protective Was Kaolai gives you:
First, precast before battle and you will have +24 armor, +34 if you have the right insignia (thats 94 total, pretty good for a caster). If the party starts dieing, you can drop it for an instant 70-80 heal party, and gain between 10-20 energy (because you switched back to your spell casting set)

Generally losing your weapon sets isn't too big a deal with rits, your spells recharges are fairly quick and they cast decently fast, the only thing you lose by using an item spell is energy, which you regain as soon as you drop the items.

In 99% of cases an item is better then a staff, the real question is the item better then the other skill that could be in its place?

Omniclasm · Nov 09, 2007, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pick Me

[skill]channeled strike[/skill] - energy gain when holding ashes

Say what?

Pick Me · Nov 09, 2007, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by silentman

i'm using Generous was Tsungrai, that means i'm holding it like allways.

i asked if there's something that i don't know about it, or there's something to do with it. i wanted to know what is better generally, item or staff. you should stop to be so arrogant, Qdq Swi.

When you use GwT, you don't need to hold on to it until the duration runs out, you can drop it and gain the benefits right away.

What is better? Again, it depends on what you intend to do? It used to be good to farm when using VwK and arcane echo (I think I heard because of the new monster AI, it isn't as good - scatter to heal).

Using a staff is good when you attack. Using ashes to get rid of conditions, or self heal, or whatever, and drop it when it not longer is useful to you.

Pick Me · Nov 09, 2007, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omniclasm

Say what?

Sorry, wrong reason. I should have said more damage. Thanks for catching that. I was distracted when I was typing it.

Qdq Swi · Nov 09, 2007, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

Really I don't care that much for spirit transfer, Spirit light heals for not too much less and costs half as much energy. And it still works (though with a downside) in case your spirit dies.

You could use a little more tact when insulting people.

OKAY sod spirit transfer... But oez hmm... what about [skill]Gaze from Beyond[/skill] dam decent skill and is a nice spike skill with fast recharge to have..

and what does "tact" mean?

silentman · Nov 09, 2007, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qdq Swi

and what does "tact" mean?

Tact is a careful consideration of one's current situation and surroundings, and acting accordingly.

For example, with respect to interpersonal relationships, tact is a careful consideration of the feelings and values of another so as to create harmonious relationships with a reduced potential for conflict or offense.

Tact in a military sense is the basis for tactics. An element is said to be tactical when their actions are in accordance with the military situation (presence or lack of enemy, illumination, inclement weather, etc).

Tact is a form of interpersonal diplomacy. Tact is the ability to induce change or communicate hurtful information without offending through the use of consideration, compassion, kindness, and reason.

For example, choosing an appropriate joke to entertain a small audience requires tact. Contrarily, a tactless joke is likely to make an audience angry or uncomfortable.

thanks to wiki. is it detailed enough? and if not, you'll see how i use tact.

anyway, thx for the good answers, i'll get better with the rit sooner or later

Pick Me · Nov 12, 2007, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by silentman

Tact is a careful consideration of one's current situation and surroundings, and acting accordingly.

For example, with respect to interpersonal relationships, tact is a careful consideration of the feelings and values of another so as to create harmonious relationships with a reduced potential for conflict or offense.

Tact in a military sense is the basis for tactics. An element is said to be tactical when their actions are in accordance with the military situation (presence or lack of enemy, illumination, inclement weather, etc).

Tact is a form of interpersonal diplomacy. Tact is the ability to induce change or communicate hurtful information without offending through the use of consideration, compassion, kindness, and reason.

For example, choosing an appropriate joke to entertain a small audience requires tact. Contrarily, a tactless joke is likely to make an audience angry or uncomfortable.

thanks to wiki. is it detailed enough? and if not, you'll see how i use tact.

anyway, thx for the good answers, i'll get better with the rit sooner or later

So true. However, I like Cordy's definition (from Buffy The Vampire Slayer):
"Tact is not saying true stuff. I'll pass."

- diplomancy;

Zahr Dalsk · Nov 13, 2007, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

If you don't use a sup in PvE your word is worth slightly less then a mending wammo.

Fixed.

Onwards to the topic at hand, I personally found the best way to learn the Ritualist class was to just play it until I had a thorough understanding of the skills... indeed, the best way to learn any class. Wiki also serves as a useful source of ideas and to learn how skills fit together.